Who among us has n’t dream about Nicolas Cage ? What might it be like to string up out with the Oscar winner , to learn him act upon or see how he choose hisincredible regalia of movies ? From The Rock , National Treasure , andRenfield , to Adaptation , Wild at Heart , andMandy , Cage is one of those actor whose career has been so foresightful and so prolific it ’s almost impossible to not have consider about him and his life beyond the prominent screen .
His late film , Dream Scenario , lease that one step further . batting cage is Paul Matthews , a dejected college professor who , one day , commencement appearing in the dreams of almost everyone on Earth . How ? Why ? We do n’t know . But now , he has the eccentric of celebrity and recognition he ’s always crave without any material effort . But , as tends to happen in modern society , fresh - found celebrity does n’t last long and what once was beloved is soon hated . shortly Paul regain himself on the opposite closing of the spectrum , and we get to catch how he deals with this unsufferable office for dear , but mostly bad .
Paul is the universe of author - director Kristoffer Borgli , a Norweigan filmmaker who still ca n’t believe he got Nicolas Cage to star in his film , which is only Borgli ’s second feature . After Dream Scenario’sU.S. premiere at Fantastic Festin September , io9 sat down with Borgli to hash out that , as well as where this wild idea for a movie follow from , his aim with it , and so much more .
Image: A24
Dream Scenario opens in quality theaters on November 10 before lucubrate by and by in the month . show our full review hereand our interview below .
This audience has been edited for length and clearness .
Germain Lussier , io9 : So going into this movie all I knew about it was Nicolas Cage testify up in hoi polloi ’s dream . Thetrailer form of plays into that too . But when you see the movie itself , and see how you used that to contribute in social culture medium , celebrity refinement , and more mainstream thought , I was really impressed and delighted . Which idea was first and how did one influence the other ?
Oh this won’t be awkward.Image: A24
Kristoffer Borgli : Oh , yeah , it ’s kind of difficult to examine to quantify and map out the creative process . There are so many different thing that happen at once . I started writing it at the end of 2019 . There were definitely just thoughts of how we have kind of parasocial relationships with each other . Like we ’re less physically together . We live in each other ’s head more .
io9 : Sure . Yeah .
Borgli : There was that . And then as I was writing it , like , the pandemic hits , and there were tidings stories about hoi polloi having the same dreams . People cover dreaming the same things , which was like , I was already writing about dreams and the variety of collective unconscious . So I think it was probably all at once . It was mean about the kind of new culture and how you could kind of stumble into fame and identification . And I was suppose about my own father , who ’s a professor now retired , but how unmanageable it is sometimes to just strain to explicate these kind of new , young phenomenons , and imagining someone like him getting thrown into kind of a strange phenomenon like this , and how he would in all probability have difficulty navigating that — and how kind of funny it would be to just track a person who is kind of fumbling with understand the unexampled cultivation .
Things take a turn.Image: A24
io9 : But in terms of the existent authorship of it , it could have superintendent leaned into the dream clobber , or could have really lean into the culture stuff . Also , it could have been very funny or very scary and it ’s actually all of those affair . How does that spring up ? Do you outline , or is it just draft after draft after draft ?
Borgli : Yeah . Wow . Yeah . I guess there ’s a cause why I ’m not a instructor .
[ Both laugh ]
Paul with his wife, played by Julianne Nicholson.Image: A24
Borgli : I have difficulties [ explaining how I work . ] Like every time I lead off a script , it ’s a mystery to me too . Like , how do I do this again ? [ Laughs ] But when those ideas strike it ’s still kind of just a benediction or a surprisal . It is an nonrational thing to follow gut inherent aptitude . It ’s sort of like what Carl Jung enjoin , that people do n’t have idea , ideas have people . So it ’s sort of ideas coming to you and demand that they be written . Something like that .
And there ’s the navigation of map it onto a script , at least for me when doing both of these last two movies , Sick of Myself and Dream Scenario , which are both multiple literary genre at once , I just have to pursue my gut instinct because there is no rule Koran to fall out . And sometimes it is almost perplexing to me too . And I also edit my own clobber . So even in the edit , I ’ll be feel a little second all of a sudden insecure about kind of whip between the genres . But I stick to it and I trust that it work , and that ’s kind of what I ’ve done so far .
io9 : And obviously it ’s mold . Your last movie was well - received , and even before Nicolas Cage got involve with this one , you had Adam Sandler attached . That ’s pretty good . So tell apart me a footling about sort of the Hollywood - ness of like how that happened , how Cage became involved , and also how the meta - ness and fertile nature of Cage ’s career changed the movie ?
Borgli : Right . Well , I moved to L.A. about six age ago and I just sign a deal with the demon and then …
Borgli : It was n’t that . Like , the whole urban center , how to get a movie fund ? swelled mystery to me . I had no idea how to fathom the system or how to get a foot in the door , at all . Then , fairly betimes on , someone said you should meet Lars Knudsen , who is Ari Aster ’s producing partner . They have Square Peg as a company together . And I ’m Scandinavian . Lars is Scandinavian . I think it was as sluttish as that . And then we started talking , and then I send out him a couple of playscript , and then I got introduced to Ari , and we just bulge working . It was somewhat straightforward .
And from then on , A24 got involve and then it became like a collective discussion of casting . I did n’t even have a wish list . I was just like , “ You make love , just someone who is good [ laughs ] . ” I did n’t conceive the degree that they were cerebrate at all . So I was surprised that we were even talking those names and like , I ’m still kind of baffle that I ’ve made a pic with Nicolas Cage . That ’s kind of demented .
And yeah , Nicolas Cage . You do it , he by all odds embodied his version of Paul Matthews and made him so intensely watchable . I conceive he finally is the man for the line of work here . But in addition to just craft - wise , being a really good worker , there was something about his living and his image that has kind of almost outgrow himself . His persona has taken on a life of its own , which is very like to the moving-picture show . It ’s what happens in the picture show . And it add up another stratum that we have a person who ’s so identifiable and was in all likelihood already in people ’s aspiration , and now we have to like , broil him in , hide him in this , as they say , noteworthy nobody . And that became a fun challenge of , like , how are we gon na get people to forget about the madly bigger - than - life persona Nicolas Cage and get people to watch Paul Matthews ? And , you know , a mix of playacting and press and everything , and there you have it .
io9 : The moving picture never explain exactly what caused Paul to come out in everyone ’s dreams , which was smart . But I have to imagine you thought about it . How long did you brainstorm possible ideas before you were like , “ You jazz what ? It ’s better not knowing . ”
Borgli : Yeah , I did attempt to make sense of it . And it just mat up uninteresting to me . My pastime is never about a plot . A plot is a necessary evil . What I want to do is I want to watch a character reference , and I want to check them change over time . And I desire to see that part in place that will bring out them . And at the same time , I desire to front at certain parts of cultural behavior and this conception and the plot is just a way to get to those mo and to check the change and exposure and insecurities of a theatrical role unfold on screen .
io9 : Well , then you might hate this question , but I ’m go to need anyway . Without spoiling anything , there are specific scenes in the movie that seem to change people ’s visions of Paul in their dreaming . Did you mean there to be a correlation between effect in the real world and people ’s percept of him in the dream world ?
Borgli : As I wrote it , I saw that his worst slope and his insecurity are what manifests in other mass ’s dreams . And he changes during the movie . And maybe he feels other than about himself and those personal defective side are what shows up in other mass ’s ambition . And it ’s kind of like a Jungian idea where he had this construct of the shadow self and the shadow self - being . The neglected bad sides that you have , you need to face them or they will start manifesting in your subconscious mind . He even talked about how they might show up in your dreaming and obsess you . So this guy ’s just mete out with a level of insecurity that ’s so extreme that they start not only appear in his own dreams , but in other people ’s dreams . That became a playfulness idea and also there ’s a correlativity , maybe causation , maybe correlation between how people see him , how they go through him in dreaming , versus what he does and how he act in this spirit .
io9 : After the movie screening you babble about how much you enjoyed researching all the dream stuff for this . Were there any specific movies that you looked at or guess about that were like , “ Oh , that ’s an interesting way to address dreams ? ” Or like “ They already did that , I do n’t want to do that . ”
Borgli : Dreams in picture , there are really good and really tough versions of it . I think it depends on what you want to do . Do you want to say , like , we ’re definitely in a ridiculous dream ? We all have really dim dreams . When you think about them in retrospect , they are so irrational and disordered . I kind of want to put you into a dream that feels like it does when you ’re dream it , when you ’re not skeptical when logic is not part of the picture . The dream ’s just needed to get you into the feeling of how serious the position is to the dreamer , and take those moments seriously . And I reckon [ to that end ] one reference is 8 1/2 , Fellini . David Lynch is [ also ] a huge divine guidance for me . And David Lynch does that too , I think . It ’s never really unclouded when you ’re in a dream or not , at least like in something like Mulholland Drive . That was something that I wanted to accomplish here , too , that it ’s vague when we are in a dream or not .
io9 : Finally , the movie never really drive a side in condition of Paul ’s actions . I felt it was reasonably nonsubjective and we see all of it . How purposeful was that ? Do you in person have a thought on how he ’s treat by social club and did you need to have a take to make this movie ?
Borgli : Well , I cogitate that what I want to expect at is a kind of antediluvian Isle of Man in our polish who ’s really insecure about his situation in the world . Who feels kind of wrong of accolades and has this undying desire for status that he never receive . And I want to attend at a human being who , like , lose track of what ’s really important . To me , it is like a story of “ check and smell the blush wine . ”
At the beginning of the movie , he has a view job . Like , that is a nice sept . That ’s a nice home . He has a skillful life history going . But his perspective is off . And I cogitate I just wanted to front at a man who cash in one’s chips through a import of crisis , and the crisis reveals parts of him that he did n’t jazz about himself , that mass around him did n’t know about him , and that he has to confront them . And ultimately kind of unhappily gain — maybe too late — what he had , you know ? And so I think that me as a author , I ’m really punching this guy to a pulp . Deservedly or not , I advisedly leave a little bit open .
I call back the flick is a little bit of a warning of the cost of engagement , of engaging too much in the current culture and not understanding the current culture and really screw up . In the final stage , it ’s kind of like a parable and a small bit of a bittersweet , distressing tale of a man who mislay track of himself and what ’s important in life story .
Dream Scenarioopens in select theatersNovember 10 .
Want more io9 newsworthiness ? hold in out when to bear the latestMarvel , Star Wars , andStar Trekreleases , what ’s next for theDC Universe on film and TV , and everything you need to lie with about the future ofDoctor Who .
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